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 Breaking the Plane

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Should we change the rules of footbag net to disallow breaking the plane?
 Yes, we should disallow breaking the plane.
 No, breaking the plane should continue to be allowed.
 Not sure, continued discussion on the subject is necessary.
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Jergernaut

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PostSubject: Breaking the Plane   Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:30 pm

Although most are familiar with this expression, "breaking the plane" of the net refers to the state of having a body part cross over the imaginary space above the tape and into opponent's side of the court.

Currently in Net, players are allowed to break the plane in order to block, spike, and fake, as long as no contact is made with an opponent or with the net. Many people are used to this rule, since it has been in place since the 80s(-ish), however, as our sport progresses we might wish to revise this rule.

Net sports, such as Volleyball and Tennis, allow breaking the plane of the net as long as no contact with opponent or net equipment is made. If we think for a minute about these sports however, we realize that there is very little chance that competitive players will hurt each other by contact fouls at the net. In Tennis player contact fouls between players never happen because tennis balls never seem to hover over the plane of the net. this is a product of players have only 1 hit per side. Also, however, because players are swinging rackets at speeds fast enough to break faces, they make sure to leave space between themselves and their opponents. In volleyball, a contact foul might result in two players having a hand collision, which would not result in very severe injury, and furthermore, since the ball is so big, the likelihood of a squish far outweighs the chance of players actually touching.

In Net, players use their feet. Jousts have the potential to be extremely injurious because of this fact, especially since legs are typically above the level of the players' heads. Furthermore, because the bag is so small, the possibility of a squish is not only difficult to impossible to judge, but very unlikely. Players colliding is what typically happens instead. And this has the potential to cause injury.

Now Takraw, a sport similar to Net, has disallowed breaking the plane since the late 70s, when one of their star players sustained a career ending injury from a plane foul. Luckily, this has never happened to a net player, but who is to say it won't?

Think for a second about what breaking the plane actually adds to our game? What does it allow for that removal of the breaking the plane rule disallows? The only thing I can think of is the possibility of Ayatollahs and chasing oversets.

I'd like to open this thread up for discussion of breaking the plane. I would like for everyone to vote in the poll, however if your vote is not made up yet, please wait, add your own thoughts, and read others' arguments before you vote. I'd like to think that we as players have the ability to instigate change in our sport if it is for the ultimate betterment of our sport. Maybe change will start here.
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willy winston III

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Location : Chicago, IL
Registration date : 2008-10-27

PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:08 am

Potential for injury is perhaps the greatest reason to consider changing the rule. For the takraw dude that Jer Bear mentioned, the rule change was too little too late. I would hate to see someone have to stop playing net for the rest of their life due to an injury that occured over the net. But to me, the biggest disadvantage of the plane rule is that it is SO hard to call- not only for the players involved but also for the judge. The bag is so little and it happens so fast.

Personally, I rarely ever break the plane, so it would probably be to my advantage to get rid of the rule. But on the other hand, I've sent a set or two to the other side and been quite pleased when my partner has been able to reach out and get it. Then I get to act like I overset it on purpose and the ladies line up to meet me. I can't tell you how many times my oversetting has led to me getting laid.

Breaking the plane is the most spectatular part of our game. And while I do understand the injury potential, I also think that there is something really cool about a guy reaching two feet beyond the plane and knocking someone else's set out of the sky.

I guess I'm on the fence on this issue for now. Perhaps some other folks would like to share their opinions...
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Jergernaut

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PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:39 pm

Perhaps breaking the plane is the most spectacular aspect of our game only because we continue to allow a rule that trivializes or minimizes the development of more advanced forms of spiking? By that I mean: if plane breaking didn't exist, players would have to improve and increase their spike play in order to match the "spectacularness" of a plane breaking spike.

If plane breaking were allowed in Takraw, more collisions, headers, and bitch slaps would happen, since that is how takraw players generally attack netward balls. Because they are not allowed, however, fewer injuries and more sets off the net for spectacular sunbacks and roll spikes happen.

Lastly, to address your point of
Quote :
the biggest disadvantage of the plane rule is that it is SO hard to call- not only for the players involved but also for the judge
A rule disallowing plane fouls would, if anything REDUCE the number of plane fouls, thus making the difficult job of refereeing easier. Players should never have to call their own net fouls or contact fouls, especially not in IFPA sanctioned tourneys.

Let's make a list of net players we know who have been injured due to plane fouls.
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runamok

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Age : 33
Location : Big Santa Cruz, California
Registration date : 2008-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:30 pm

breaking the plane is cool. We are supposed to be athletes with fortitude. Why make any sport less exciting? If anything we need to make contacts legal.

I don't mean to offend anyone that had been hurt, dont get me wrong.
But I think injuries happen, this ain't the fucken chess club.

without crossing the plane we would lose a good part of the game.
we would evolve it to be exciting again in time.
except we would look like little girls whilst doing it.

what do you think?
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Rob Adams is my hero



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Registration date : 2008-10-24

PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:35 pm

For spectators sake, free the plane entirely. It is much more exciting for people watching when the plane is free. The late, great Wash Park Footbag Club had a free plane and drew many many spectators who often commented on the excitement of watching the jousts. There was no controversy on who fouled who because the plane was free, simply where the bag ended up. As far as injuries, I learned the hard way, from Jim Cobb at the US Open one year, how to jump and protect myself from injury. Since that incident, I learned that jumping sole pushes near the net were not a wise thing to do. From then on, if there was ever a chance for contact, I went up sideways to protect myself. Free da Plane!
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BigPoppaPetey
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:48 pm

This debate i have already laid out my points of view on FW.


Breaking the Plane is weak
http://www.footbag.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2863&highlight=

and the original

Plane Rule

http://www.footbag.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2057&highlight=

You can read through these to see all the points made, remember I have played more takraw then any of you, and so I know what it is like to play without a plane break, it is sweet and you learn to kill way more spectacular shots then the over the net ones:



There are so many reasons it sucks for the sport. Here is my brief real brief summary:

1. Dangerous- Getting kicked when killing something on my side sucks or having some fool roll under the net at me is even better.

2. It puts the Defense at a disadvantage: Which is already bad enough because we are trying to dig a ping pong bag, and it rewards the offfensive team for unforced over set(fakes) if they miss.

3. It slows the progression of spiking down the whole sport and especially for beginners: The old set to the net and pray shot is still worth a few good points, unfortunately this is a good strategy for newbies. When they could be focusing on learning real kills! Have fun reading!
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Jergernaut

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Registration date : 2008-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:34 pm

BUMP?

In another forum, this topic has come up. I though it interesting that when reading the first page of the old FW threads, I remembered that this summer I witnessed two world champs have a pretty epic collision over the net, both of whom came away thinking that it was a purposeful encounter made to "leave the other player a message" not to mess with my bag. It actually made me want to yell at both of them.

If plane breaking remains allowed, then I say that 1 contact foul equals not just a side out but a loss of point contact, and 2 fouls equals an automatic DQ.

Players who do not understand the no plane breaking philosophy likely do not hit the type of spikes that require a player to be backed in, to lose sight of the opponent, to have one's body in a vulnerable position. They hit the pussy spikes Rolling Eyes

Now, I know you might say, thats a player's choice to be positioned in such a way. True. BUT Should I really have to fear that a player on the other side of the net might come and try to steal my ball when I am either "blind" to his actions or upside down in mid air? Should I even have to ponder the possibility of falling on my head, or having somebody strike my knee for a ball that was clearly not theirs?

NO I shouldn't, which is why plane breaking should not be allowed.

In Memphis 2 years ago-ish, a player got hurt for several months and tore ligaments in his knee from getting kicked during a plane foul.
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Jergernaut

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PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:11 pm

Let me try to attack this argument a different way. Below, I have listed 9 of the most common spikes in what I feel is the typical order of acquisition based on difficulty.

runmok: On a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is "a reliably great shot" and 1 is "I can't even do it", please rate your ability to hit the following spikes:
sole push
flying side kick
sweep
bitch slap
toe jam
toe reverse
sunback
frontback
roll spike

Next to your rating for each spike, specify the number of months you think you've been practicing those shots.

Now let's look back at your ratings and answer each of these questions:
1)Which shots do you use to attack balls on the tape?
2)Which shots do you use to reach over the net?
3)Which shots do you hit the hardest?
4)Which shot(s) are your best kills?
5)Which shots can you hit down?
6)Which shots are inconsistent?
7)Which shots get dug easily?

When you look back on your 2-3 years of playing net, do you feel like you have spent your time wisely developing your offensive game? What if anything would you change and why? What skills are you going to develop next?

I believe that, if, and when the focus is taken away from plane breaking spikes, players will spend more time developing effective "kill" shots. Think Jack. Think PT. Think straight down, hard as fuck shots that you have a chance to dig 1 out of 25 times. Those are the shots people should be developing, not fucking sole push!

That's why I feel plane breaking is detrimental to net. I think it affects newbs' decisions on what to practice. (Just think of all the time I spent trying to hit ayatollah! I've used it once in a tourney ever. )
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runamok

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PostSubject: Re: Breaking the Plane   Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:02 pm

sole push-8(3 years)
flying side kick-idk what this is. lolx
sweep-5(1 year)
bitch slap-4(6 months)
toe jam-5(1 year)
toe reverse-6(6 months)
sunback-3(3 months)
frontback-2(3 months)
roll spike-0 on a good day(not yet trained)

i think i see where your going with this jerms,
if these numbers where higher breaking the plane would be more efficient and should hold off untill then

shots that i will attack at tape; sole, bitch slap,toe jam, reverse.
overs i will attack; sole, toe jam, occasional reverse
hardest kills in order; reverse, toe jam, sunback
my best kill is by far the reverse atm, i can remember hitting 14 in a row during drills.
kills that you will not dig^^ my flaming hot toe jam
shots i fail more than half the time- bitch slap, frontbacks, sweeps
easly dug shots are just about everything but toes and reverses.
as of this date i have 62 recorded spikes with 12 of them being dug.19% (to high)

In my 3 years of playing net have i spent my time wisely?

well i think i could have done some things different, but for themost part i dont think i learned bad habbits/ at least i show up EVERY sunday, and i line up all the midweek kicks, had met tons of great ppl.footbag is the first hobby i have kept for this long now that i am thinking about it. i can be happy on these facts alone.
yo-yo-1 year
disc golf-1 year.
underwater basket weaving-1 week.

i see your point tho about the newbs learning to attack the net in vain.
ill be making it a point to cross less.
but its important for you think i have no quams with crossing and getting the foul, it will make you go for it less, thus my point.
so with that being said.
BE SKRRD!'tongue'
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